The ideas in our heads are not reality, but instead are concepts we impose on reality. "The map is not the terrain," as that oh-so-accurate saying tells us.
The better those mental concepts explain reality, the closer they are to reality. But they are never reality itself.
If you want to use the concept of narcissism, the "alpha" is the grandiose self, and the "beta" is the devalued self. This accounts for the delusions about how women "hate betas," which they don't.
It also means the biggest fear of self-proclaimed "alphas" is their fear of being a "beta wimp," which is why they project their fears and anxieties onto the "beta" (this can be considered Jung's Shadow - the rejected part of the self).
None of them understand this, of course.
There are other ways to look at this, but they all lead to the same conclusion.
There is a system of classification known as the Enneagram, in which the Type 8 is the Boss-Top Dog-Challenger-Confronter. At their worst, they are what the Manosphere claims is an "alpha."
There are nine classifications, and none are better than any other. I am, for example, a Type 5, which is the Observer/Investigator/Sage.
When the Type 8 starts to disintegrate, they head toward Type 2 - the Helper/Giver...what they think is the "beta wimp."
This is their problem and no one else's. It is not universal for all men.
Since I am a Type 5, my area of disintegration is to head toward Type 7 - the Epicure/Enthusiast/Visionary/Dreamer. I have known this for a long time, because if I let myself go, all I would do is eat and drink and smoke and lie around and daydream and read and watch movies. Supposed at my best I'm a balance between Type 5 and Type 8...which I have never been able to achieve.
When Roissy and Rollo Tomassi and Vox Day are writing about "alphas" and "betas" they are writing about their problems, and are trying to convince you their problems are your problems.
You know something else? My area of integration is to head toward the Type 8 - the Boss-Top Dog-Challenger-Confronter. I also know this, which is why I know what Type 8s are like and how they're terrified of being wimps..."betas."
It's why it's so easy for me to see through them. For that matter, one of the strengths of the Type 5 is "I see though you."
The nine classifications of the Enneagram?
1. Perfectionist/Reformer
2. Helper/Giver
3. Performer/Producer/Achiever
4. Tragic-Romantic/Individualist/Connoisseur
5. Observer/Investigator/Sage
6. Devil's Advocate/Loyalist/Troubleshooter/Guardian
7. Epicure/Ethusiast/Visionary/Dreamer
8. Boss/Top Dog/Challenger/Confronter
9. Mediator/Peacemaker/Preservationist.
Again, none of them are any better than the other. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses.
21 comments:
9w1 myself - very interesting post Bob.
I probably go either 5 or 6...but I agree to the extent of the 'I see through you' theory.
That's not to say I'm always right, but you investigate enough and you can formulate a decent conclusion.
It's why while there are some things about Donald Trump I agree with, I would never vote for the guy.
I probably go either 5 or 6...but I agree to the extent of the 'I see through you' theory.
That's not to say I'm always right, but you investigate enough and you can formulate a decent conclusion.
It's why while there are some things about Donald Trump I agree with, I would never vote for the guy.
Yeah sure Cult of bob. You can use all the psychobabble you want to, but Alphas get laid and Betas don't. These pseudoscientific experts are like Freud, frauds with cardboard degrees who come up with Dungeons and Dragons classifications to try to explain things they don't understand.
Get a clue bub. There are four kinds of guys in the world. Alpha males who lead the pack, betas who follow, gammas who don't get picked and are left out, and sigmas who are bad to the bone and can stand alone. You don't need a theory, you see it all through life. These poindexters in labcoats are the guys who sold you Trans fat as margarine because they claimed it was good for you. Keep believing these soothsayers, maybe someday they'll be right. I won't hold my breath.
"It's why while there are some things about Donald Trump I agree with, I would never vote for the guy. "
How do you get from that to there? The thing about Trump that I can't get over is that he's right about everything that matters. Even with the Meygn Kelly thing, it's past due that someone took the PMSing Irish Catholic princess down a peg. Even if I didn't agree with him about Russia, trade, immigration, Iraq, the Bushes, etc. I'd still vote for him just for the entertainment value.
Test Results:
Type 5 - 10.7
Type 4 - 10
Type 6 - 9.7
Type 2 - 7.7
Type 7 - 6
Type 9 - 5.7
Type 8 - 5
Wing 5w4 - 15.7
Wing 5w6 - 15.6
Wing 4w5 - 15.4
Wing 6w5 - 15.1
Wing 6w7 - 12.7
Wing 7w6 - 10.9
Wing 4w3 - 10.4
Wing 2w1 - 8.9
Wing 7w8 - 8.5
Wing 9w8 - 8.2
Wing 2w3 - 8.1
Wing 8w7 - 8
Wing 8w9 - 7.9
Wing 9w1 - 6.9
"These pseudoscientific experts are like Freud, frauds with cardboard degrees who come up with Dungeons and Dragons classifications to try to explain things they don't understand."
Exactly, like this "social-sexual hierarchy". Sounds good on paper, but wait until people define the terms to suit their own narratives. Observably, there are "top" and "bottom" people when it comes to pulling tail and making money. But there a shit-ton of variables to consider.
This is the true definition of Alpha in my opinion:
https://hbr.org/2005/07/level-5-leadership-the-triumph-of-humility-and-fierce-resolve
Bob: "This accounts for the delusions about how women "hate betas," which they don't. "
These are your delusions that you are projecting.
LOL.
You're beginning to sound like ol' Voxxie, Bob! :)
Vox hangs greek letters on men to stereotype them and you are assigning personality clusters to them.
Vox and some of the other guys have good messages for young men hidden amongst the baggage. They advocate self improvement, caution and care when dealing with women and contempt for unmanly behaviour.
Like him or hate him - Vox was the first to actually pipe up and challenge the gender-challenged cretins that basically destroyed SF. When I was a kid the genre was huge and you could lose yourself in the aisles of the library dedicated to it. Today, it is being written by men with boobs, and by fat, angry hairy chested women with rainbow coloured hair. Those twinks are pretty much the only ones that will read it too. And that crap swirling around the hugos or nebulas or whatever they are? That crap has to stop. FFS - I have read more contemptible shite written by social justice warriors than I care to admit - and I don't like the idea of spending good money on a book only to get lectured and scolded by some homosexual flink or a kiddie diddler - and those are the people that own the genre right now.
I don't like Vox as a man but he does provide some superlative commentary and entertainment. I almost died of laughing cramps the day I got banned for pointing out that by his own definitions - his son was a gamma male! HAR HAR HAR!
You woulda been a good father, methinks.
This alphas get all the pussy is maddening. In many cultures to be in thrall to women, to pander to women, to chase pussy is seen as contemptable and unmanly. Women have so degraded and debased themslves that getting pussy really is no great accomplishment.
When Roissy and Rollo Tomassi and Vox Day are writing about "alphas" and "betas" they are writing about their problems, and are trying to convince you their problems are your problems.
Nailed it.
My opinion about Tommasi is that he does that out of ignorance. He is making the right conclusions using the wrong sources. Therefore, although his logic is right, his conclusions are wrong. How can you expect to have an understanding of the world if you use guys like Roosh, Chriostian McQueen or RSD as source of information?
"He is making the right conclusions using the wrong sources. Therefore, although his logic is right, his conclusions are wrong."
This doesn't make sense. By using logic, one should have logical and correct conclusions. If his conclusions were wrong, then his logic was wrong.
Please explain and give an example.
This doesn't make sense. By using logic, one should have logical and correct conclusions. If his conclusions were wrong, then his logic was wrong.
It does make sense. Logic does not address the truth. Example:
The cow has four legs
A table has four legs
then the cow is a table.
There. A classic silogism. The conclussion will be logical, but not true.
In a different aspect, Tommasi does the same.
I almost died of laughing cramps the day I got banned for pointing out that by his own definitions - his son was a gamma male! HAR HAR HAR!
You got a link for that? That would be awesome.
"Alphas get laid and Betas don't."
You've got it backwards.
"Bob: "This accounts for the delusions about how women "hate betas," which they don't. "
These are your delusions that you are projecting."
Come back when you grow up.
@ John
"Level 5 leader—an individual who blends extreme personal humility with intense professional will."
The true definition of humility is to know your limitations.
"Alphas get laid and Betas don't."
Uh-huh. I'm as beta as fuck, yet my approach to lay ratio was close to 30%.
Your alphalpha man krauser pua has a less then 3% approach to lay ratio. Quantity wise he has had a hell of a lot more lays then me, but he runs a numbers game. No skill there, just keep attacking til by chance you meet a dirty enough slut that will bang anyone and a donkey now and then also. If this is the best game has to offer, if this is being an "alpha" I will gladly stay as beta as fuck, and have time in my life to do more then to be a clown begging/clowning for pussy all the time.
Be real, guys like krauser pua are pure omega's. They lack self esteem and put others down to build themselves up. Otherwise known as losers!
"Uh-huh. I'm as beta as fuck, yet my approach to lay ratio was close to 30%."
Unless you have a list of those women (with photographs) you shagged, your percentage is trumped up.
"Betas" are the ones who screw around a lot.
I found this out in high school and college - and I looked like Garth Algar.
Actually, 5 is the point of disintegration for an 8; 2 is the point of integration for an 8.
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