Rock71
"Young men watched their mothers divorce their fathers and saw them pay their mothers for the privilege. In today's anti-male environment it doesn't pay to get married and become a father. Back in the day,we had a social contract. If a man worked hard to provide for the family, he was rewarded with their emotional support. Now,if he marries and divorces,he will have to pay alimony and child support. In other words, he has the responsibility of providing without the reward of their emotional support. If women were struggling we would be seriously looking at what was discouraging them. When men are reluctant to grow up we say 'why won't these guys grow up'! It isn't s serious asking. It is more 'what's their problem'! Young men like me who grew up during the girl power years have been made to feel like 'less thans' simply because of our gender. Nearly everyone,including the author of this article aren't truly concerned about young men. They are more concerned with shaming them,then truly finding out why so many of them are hurting.Young men in their twenties commit suicide at six times the rate of women in their twenties,but the only concern is: damn it,men! Get over it so young women will have someone to marry!"
Avatar
"I'm a guy in his early 20s and i say screw having a serious relationship I've seen how my mother and sisters have treated my father I know he might not have been the best dad but last 10 years all it's been is degrade.degrade.degrade f that i'd rather place my shotgun up to my head and blow my brain out with a three inch magnum"
Bill "I would rather play video games and watch porn all night than having an angry and entitled princess rule my life.
And no... sex isn't worth it."
Steven B Bill
"sex isn't a given in marriage anymore.... Women screw higher value men when they are single and then aren't happy with their equal when they marry so usually are not sexually attracted to them. Honestly, porn is better then a 30+ year old aging, nagging woman that is turning into a land whale. Why would any man pay full price for a used car that other men got to drive for free when the car was new. If the whores want to practice price discrimination on me, expect to get led on. Women loose a lot of power when they age and they are going to loose a hell of a lot more power soon once men get a birth control pill which feminists have been lobbying against for years because they will loose the power to trap men when they want to have kids."
Kitty
"Bill, how right you are!
I am a woman (35) but I valued my freedom very high all my life. Funnily enough this article could be written about me. I also love spending time in Internet, listen to music and watch (mostly gay) porn.)"
Yan
"Long article. I waited in vain for it to get to the point.
If every game in town is a "wimmin's game" with the odds always fixed artificially in their favour, why would men want to play? There's no incentive.
"Men that live with their parents and play video games are considered immature. Because maturity is defined by women in terms of their willingness to serve women.
"It's not rocket science."
Steven B Yan
"bingo, It is not my duty to slave away for someone. Should I choose to do it, that is one thing but honestly I see no reason to. Women have flings with higher value men all throughout college and their earlier 20s and then when they go looking for relationships right as they start to age and loose their looks they can only get their equal and when you have been test driving BMWs your whole youth, you don't appreciate the Toyota that you can afford and frankly the men that were ignored have no interest in paying full price for a very used car that others got to lease for free when the car was new and had less millage. If your so equal then "man up" and get a better paying job if you want kids and a family. It may have taken men 50 years to respond to feminism but you can bet your diamond ring that we have caught on and you are about to see our response and it isn't going to end anytime in your lifetime."
anonymous
"men are boycotting a corrupt system.
"My ex wife gets to enjoy alimony while living with another man because she is "entititled" to a living standard from a marriage she walked out on.
"You can only screw men over for so long until they quit participating in the game."
sanddust
"Agreed. I am a 44 year old female who for years has been warning both men and women of what you described. I remember well the tee shirts with sayings plastered across them "Anything boys can do girls can do better" and "Princess in training" They were blatant attempts at devaluing the genuine and BEAUTIFUL healthy male/female relationship. It worked! Please don't give up! There ARE women out there who will be supportive and loyal. Women who allow men their dignity as MEN. But you must do the same for women. BE a man. Accept nothing less than a real woman who understands and embraces her place as one in nature. They do exist. Good luck to you."
Steven B
"tell all the young men you know what happened to you and explain to them what laws and social changes have led to this so they know they should not expect their grandparents marriage."
Dan
"Maybe if men werent devalued by rampant feminism in every aspect of society, and the entire role of the husband and father in our civilization wasn't revoked to please militant feminists, maybe if women weren't favoured for jobs and positions to promote gender equality in the workplace, I might want to go out and get a job, and raise a family. As it is, because of ridiculous laws that favour women, I can be accused of rape with no evidence at all and treated as a rapist untill I am cleared, losing my job, family and friends. I be divorced with no fault at all, lose my children, property and income in that no-fault divorce, be roped into paying child support for children I'm not allowed to see in that same divorce, go to prison because I can't afford to pay that child support. I can fall in love with a woman, and have her destroy my entire life out of nothing more than boredom, take my children, tear apart my family, take my house, my property and my income, even destroy my reputation, and I don't have to have done anything wrong. Society teaches women that men aren't feeling..."
Realiti
"Social contracts. The contract of chivalry is very different from that of equality. The women these days would like to have the perks of both and responsibilities of neither. Understandable, but nobody's standing up to say "no bloody way." I am supposed to treat women as my equal... until a ship is sinking, then it's women first. I'm supposed to make the exact same wages as a woman on a job, but I'm supposed to pay for her meal on a date. It's "a woman's body" when she considers an abortion - my views don't matter. When she decides not to abort and demand child support from me, it's my duty - even if I told her to have an abortion. Frankly, that's bullshit. Unequal status under chivalry was a reflection of unequal responsibility. Equal status, equal responsibility. Ladies, woman-up. You're equal. It's the 21st century. You're well past the fainting couch."
John
I'm 50. I've read this article. Ignore every single word of it. There is almost no upside in buying into being a husband, father, "responsible man" in the society we live in. Pursue your pleasures.
24 comments:
You frequently voice your contempt for Roissy and Co. here, but they're really the only ones who've presented a realistic strategy for the game as it's presented to us nowadays. The only winning move anymore is not to play.
The West is collapsing in the same cycle as has been repeated many times through history. There's no saving it; all that's left is to watch it die and enjoy the ride down, deriving some schadenfreude along the way from the hysterical protestations of spoiled brats like the author of that article.
Roissy is a wimp and liar who had his heart broken, never got over it, and now hates women, contrary to what he says. His "strategy," such that it is, has been around for thousands of years, and leads to nothing to destruction. He's too ignorant to know that. Same with Krauser and Vox Day.
Roissy and Krauser are nihilists and hedonists, and Day is not a Christian but a heretic. I want you to think carefully about where those things lead. You can use history as your guide.
True, the "PUA" lifestyle, in all its forms and offshoots and variations is basically nihilism and hedonism. It's vicious by definition, as in vice. A vice is something that makes you want more, that never leaves you satisfied. It's a form of addiction. Of course it's not an optimal solution.
Point is: what's the alternative? Women cannot be trusted, marriage is a joke, and even cohabitation isn't that viable an option anymore because in some countries extended cohabitation will be considered a form of marriage by a court of law. In places like Canada, Sweden and I'm assuming most of the Anglosphere, she can have you incarcerated with a false rape accusation. (See: Julian Assange.) In fact, it doesn't even need to be rape. Just a general accusation of "abuse." And you're fucked. The police will not even bother to investigate. They'll just grab you and toss you in a cell.
If you have a relationship with a woman with a kid, and you interact with that kid a bit too much, then according to some judges you have assumed a "fatherly role", that is, you have somehow adopted the kid without really having adopted the kid! You buy the kid candy once, and now you have to support him until he's 18. It happened.
Seriously, Bob, I'm not saying that you're wrong, you're right on the money 99% of the time, but what has a man to do nowadays? You're surrounded by insane women and desperate manboobs who sustain their delusions hoping for a sniff of pussy. Just a sniff, mind you.
Not everyone can move to SE Asia or Easter Europe to find a saner environment. Just a small fraction of men who are location-independent can do that. And it's still a big risk. The rest have to make-do with whatever they have. Namely, trash. So they adapt. Some just go "screw it" and jack off to porn and become herbivores and marry their anime pillows and virtual girlfriends, some enter the whole PUA hedonist cult and survive on empty one-night stands and "mini-relationships" with subhuman women, some just go MGTOW and write off womankind completely, and so on. Can you blame them?
Interesting article and even more interesting comments. Like the commenter "John" I'm an older married guy. What the women don't realize is that the "social contract" that incentivized men to marry has been broken. Let's face it: men were always the expendable beasts of burden. But in earlier days there were perks for taking on the tremendous sacrifice of marriage and children: respect, property rights, a certain amount of deference, male-only spaces, etc. Now those are pretty much all gone. Yet society demands that men still live up to their old responsibilities. We're now beginning to see how well (not!) that is working for society.
What are you terrified about?
Social change is necessary -- the current system is broken beyond repair at this stage. And social change generally requires pain -- social pain strong enough to incentivize social change.
We shouldn't be terrified of this. If anything, it's a positive sign, because it means that a period is on the way when there will be tremendous social pain as a result of subsidizing a broken system for too long. It's only at that time that real social change can occur, and it will be change in the direction of encouraging the kinds of things, for men and women alike, that lead to greater family life and investment in children.
Trying to do that under the current system merely subsidizes it. It has the effect of putting lipstick on a pig, which is bad because it makes people think that the pig isn't really a pig -- when, in fact, it really *is* a pig. What's needed is throwing out the pig and replacing it with a stable system that is not the current corrupt one. That can only happen once people are truly sick of the pig, so, yes, things need to get more painful before they can get better. And a good deal of that pain will come from men having dropped out of the system, de facto, by not playing the game by the corrupt rules it currently employs.
Of course, there's also a "lifeboat" element -- that is, people who form families as lifeboats to provide a seed for some post-collapse situation. That's an interesting approach, but I personally do not expect a collapse as much as a continued morphing, and then a point where there is so much pain inflicted by the rather obvious excesses of individualism that the pendulum swings back in the other direction. Before that happens, we need more pain, socially -- a lot more of it, unfortunately. Why? Because it's going to take a TON of social pain in order for people to accept limits on their sexual freedom again, and that is *exactly* what is needed to restore order in this key area. Won't come about without tremendous pain socially.
These poor feminists are getting exactly what they worked hard to obtain. Aged, used up, and bitter, they complain that no white knight wants them. It's delicious.
Part of what the current situation is producing is, at its worst, feral young men, raised by women, with no fathers.
I see the black family as a sign of what happens to whites much later. They've got broken families, no fathers, a vicious matriarchy (as all matriarchies are), feral boys in gangs, girls having babies and going on welfare. Violence and the breakdown on society.
That's I find scary.
I actually think the comments are encouraging.
The quoted article is about 2 1/2 years old. It's likely the commenters are just a bunch of regular guys. It's a stretch to think they are disaffected, disgruntled manosphere dwellers you disdain and deride.
I think that article is flawed. I didn't read it all, but what I saw over and over in it was the question: 'What is wrong with out young men?'
The answer, IMHO, is...absolutely NOTHING. They are doing exactly what they should be doing. They look for good women - which, according to the divorce stats, comprise 50% of the female population. The rest are dregs, skanks or whores. There are not enough good women around, there are not enough jobs to go round - and these men have gone into holding patterns while they wait for a break. That's fine by me, I would rather see that than see them flush their lives down the toilet with a bad marriage to some femcnut that will only abuse them and leave them a life time of sorrow and guilt.
I am not impressed with Roissy or Roosh...but Vox Day rocks. Right now he is debunking immunology and vaccination - and I am probably going to get banned as a troll. I don't care, I will still lurk even so. The conversation is always lively there and he often dispenses very good advice.
"you disdain and deride."
"Plates"
"Alph/Beta"
"Shit tests"
I could go on, but you know the rest.
The Manosphere mixes very good with very bad. Some of the ideas are simply horrendous and will lead to nothing but trouble.
You'd be surprised at the number of private letters I get which tell me, "I tried to follow the advice in the Manosphere...it made me sick."
Mixing good and bad is worse than just all bad. It's takes a long time to separate them.
Vox Day is fine as long as he stays away from advice on men and women. Any guy who says he admires Roissy as much as he claims...that's a huge red flag for me.
"Part of what the current situation is producing is, at its worst, feral young men, raised by women, with no fathers."
Step in and fix it then Bob.
The fact is, neither you nor any other man can effect change when faced with the oppression of men feminism has put in place.
The pendulum has to swing both ways.
I spent a lot of time explaining things to younger men who ask me for advice. That's just about I can do.
Others are doing other things. It will take a long time, but the tide will turn, as it always does.
I won’t spend a lot of time arguing this.
“Plates” I presume is “spinning plates”. That just means dating different women without committing to one or investing in one until you find one worth investing in and committing to.
“Alph/beta” I presume is the alpha/beta distinction. It’s been over- and underdefined to death, but there is a distinction between men that women find attractive and men that women don’t find attractive. There are attractive traits and unattractive traits. Sure, it’s not the most useful shorthand. But the fact of the matter is there are attractive men and unattractive men; attractive traits and unattractive traits, and they all can be pretty easily identified.
“Shit testing” Shit testing is a thing; it’s really just women testing whether a man will stand up to her and put up with her BS, or not. It’s a test of his mettle and masculinity, really. All women do this to men they’re in relationships with. It’s not a test to determine “genetic fitness”, as you seem to believe or as others have allegedly told you.
I guess I don’t see what’s so controversial about:
1. Limiting your commitment and investment in women until you find one that works
2. Understanding what is and is not attractive to women
3. Knowing that a woman will test a man to see if he will stand up to her or not, or put up with her BS or not
Just how widespread do you think this phenomenon is, in percentage of total adult population? I am trying to get an angle on the magnitude of this issue.
Judging by the people I know it's pretty bad.
What I run into all the time are hostile abusive divorced/never married middle-aged women.
And a lot of cynical young men who don't approach women and play video games.
I don't think you disagree with your commenters as much as you think, Uncle Bob. They mostly acknowledge today's problems and the PUA nonsense.
The problem, however, is that they must live in the world as it exists now, not as it may be in the future.
Hey Uncle Bob,
Saw your blog on 'Captain Capitalism's' blogroll. This post is puzzling to me - if what you're seeing are "hostile abusive divorced/never married middle-aged women", why are you "terrified" that men aren't interested in marriage now?
To agree with Anonymous at Sept 17 at 12:19 PM, the world now is not what it was, nor as it may be in future.
gdgm+
@novaseeker:
We shouldn't be terrified of this. If anything, it's a positive sign, because it means that a period is on the way when there will be tremendous social pain as a result of subsidizing a broken system for too long.
I think that the people who are counting on total societal collapse (TSC) might be holding their breath for a very long time.
The tipping point will come when a sufficient number of white male producers realize they've been had and stop producing a surplus (i.e., more than they need for their own survival.) When that day comes, society will collapse in a heap. However, the rulers are doing everything they can to keep men in the dark. In the future they may even reside to violence.
Thanks to Bob and people like him (Thanks Bob!) we here are beginning to understand the score. But we're naught but humble pirates.
So it could take a week, or it could take a hundred years or more (viz - the Roman Empire). Although granted things happen a whole lot faster in these times. So my guess would be more in the 15-20 year range. Anyway, my opinion and $50 will get you a latte at Starbucks.
The family is the basis of society. When it fails children grow to to be uncivilized feral adults.
I had to pull a pistol on several feral teenagers who attacked me in the street.
That is what is "terrifying."
Bob, can you really blame women the guys for preferring video games?
Women mostly aren't worth the trouble and expense and have little to offer men.
Cost-benefit analysis. The cost of women is very high and the benefit is very low. Women don't know that, though.
Let the world fall into pieces tomorrow, let the planets collide and the stars come tumbling down. I dont need another day now that my dream has come true. Lucky me, now I have you. See the link below for more info.
#collide
www.ufgop.org
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