I don't believe in Evo-Pysch at all. It's not a science and in fact is not even close to being one, so let's stop pretending it is.
Here's an example: women are "hypergamous" and supposedly want the best men to have children by. I've heard some real nonsense from the ignorant. They really believe there is "Alpha" sperm and "Alpha" genes, which shows they know nothing about genetics.
If a woman is irresistibly attracted to "Alphas" who are rich and good-looking and popular with women, then she cannot at the same time be attracted to Loser Bad Boys.
Unless, of course, these Loser Bad Boys are tattooed, meth-dealing, motorcycle-riding George Clooneys. Who don't exist.
I was raised with Loser Bad Boys. They were not "Alphas." Most are dead from drugs or murder or in prison. None of them were good-looking and none of them were popular with women. They were narcissistic and stupid and sometimes very scary. And for the most part, I got along with them just fine.
Yes, some women were attracted to them, but every one of them was physically disgusting, not to mention stupid.
By the way, I have Loser Bad Boys in my family. One got into a gun fight with a cop and got his pinky finger blown off (the doctors don't know how many times he was shot because some of the bullets went through the same holes). The second got 40 years for murder, got paralyzed in a fight with another inmate, and is permanently in a wheelchair. He will get out at age 65. His life ended at 25.
I also know about women who write prisoners. I've met them, just the way I've met a lot of whores and groupies. They're nuts and unfit for any kind of relationship.
And if you think these women are good for just a fuck, have at it. The last guy I knew who tried is dead. Murdered. Blown right off his Harley. The shooter got life. And one of my friends got his jaw broken by one of these guys, because he was with this guy's "girlfriend" and had no idea that she was. This was the same guy I saw get into a gunfight (if he knew who I was, he ever mentioned it, even though later he worked a while for my father).
The Soft Boys of the Manosphere wouldn't be talking about these things as they do is they had any experience in life.
Don't talk about things you know nothing about. You don't know anything about "Bad Boys." I do.
Experience trumps stupid theory every time.
Prediction: I will hear every excuse and rationalization as to why women can be attracted to rich, good-looking, popular "Alphas" and unattractive, poor Loser Bad Boys at the same time.
And every one of them will fail. It's because the Believers have gone down the Rabbit Hole and can't find their way out.
19 comments:
Hi Bob - your prediction came true!!!!!
Try removing the 'rich' and 'poor' from your comparison and you might get a clearer understanding of the concept.
Young women no longer perceive that they need men for provisioning (they do of course, it's just provided by men, one step removed, by the state).
If an individual man's wealth / provisioning capacity no longer carries much weight, men will be measured by women by other means - the primary one being the tingles. And tingles are primarily provided by a man's social dominance.
The good looking 'good' guy can still be a wimp whilst the unattractive Bad Boy may be dominant. Many women will take the second option - at least for a time. When it's time to 'settle down' the same women can quite easily switch to the good guy if she wants.
Both men satisfied her hypergamy at the time.
Cadders nails it.
Bob, where you're getting hung up is on material wealth, "rich" and "poor".
Women don't need men for money anymore, at least not when they're in their 20s and earning just enough to support themselves. It's only when the baby rabies kick in that they demand the steady good guy to write the checks and pay the bills.
There's the flaw in your argument.
I'm well aware of the concepts - and women do not get "tingles" from repulsive "Bad Boys."
By the way, I have two relatives who are Bad Boys and have been in prison. One got 40 years for murder, and was paralyzed in a fight with another inmate. He is in a wheelchair and will get out at age 65.
Again, experience trumps theory every time.
Bob - with the greatest respect you are clearly not aware of the concepts.
Bad boys who end up in prison or with broken bodies are clearly in no position to satisfy most women's hypergamous instincts - one is locked away and the other will become invisible to women as he is of little use to them.
The bad boy who commits crimes and doesn't get caught, who doesn't get badly injured, maybe does drugs or any number of other poor behaviors - as long as he retains a dominant frame - will exert an attraction to many women. Certainly compared to wimpy 'Good Boy'.
If that bad boy gets seriously injured or is bested by a rival - i.e loses he dominant frame, women will see him as just another loser. We as men would see him as a loser from the start because he does not hold himself to the standards to which we may hold ourselves. But most young women measure men these days by the tingle factor. It takes the loss of the tingle for women to see such a man as a loser.
Equally the wimpy 'good guy' could develop a masculine frame (learn Game - as yes I know your opinion of Game) and start attracting women. The very same women who only had eyes for the bad boy before he failed.
I think we are talking past each other a bit.
I suspect you are talking about the kind of failed bad boys that both men and women despise.
I am talking about the bad boys who do little to contribute to, well anything, but dominate the environment (for good, but mostly for bad) they exist in.
Do you PUA types and your secular religion ever let up?
I feel tempted to start a buzzword bingo game.
Those aren't Bad Boys. They're wannabes. When they run into real Bad Boys they collapse.
Mouth on top, nothing underneath.
I've seen people shot in front of me. A gunfight that put me under the pool table in a second.
When you see the things I've seen you don't listen to people who haven't experienced the things I have.
"And if you think these women are good for just a fuck, have at it. The last guy I knew who tried is dead."
One woman in a bar a year or two ago was practically begging me to invite her back to my place. She was wasted drunk, possibly also high, and during our rather one-sided conversation, she admitted to having a murderous ex-boyfriend and a minor cocaine addiction.
Even apart from moral and ethical considerations, and even apart from the disease risk, I realized that it would be a very, very bad idea to show that woman where I lived, and an even worse idea to let her spend time in the same room as my personal financial papers. I can only imagine what might have gone wrong if we'd gone to her place.
I guess passing up that golden opportunity for a brief and unsatisfying shag makes me a "Beta wimp". So be it.
I saw a reality show with a suburbanite woman who married a man serving a life sentence for murder.
The show? Hoarders.
So yeah.
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not."
I worked a minimum wage job for a time. I was reasonably fit then, but not in any way good marriage material. Despite that, I was solicited for sex.
Of course, not by any mythical nines. The two events that stand out were first. A mildly fat (still somewhat attractive, I'd guess late 20's) single mother that casually talked about her last boyfriend abusing her. The sad thing was, that as she explicitly stated her street and address her little boy was right there. Naturally I never followed up.
The other solicitation, was an ugly land whale. A truly repulsive being she was canned within a week. This, for her, was only another step in a long line of hireing and fireing. Utterly lacking self awareness of her appearance, she never the less had a high level of self esteem.
Mentally healthy woman do not go for “bad boys.” There was this obese white woman who I would see shopping with black males. Usually bruising would mark when she was going to jump ship and come back with a new man. That happened at least four times in six months.
Of course the funny thing is the drop dead hands down most attractive woman there was this cute red head. She was 21 and married to a 30 year old co-owner of an army surplus store. She was one of the nicest persons there, in the end she left to work with her husband in making movie costumes. So, no I can’t say I have ever seen evidence of the “bad boy” effect.
I haven't seen the Bad Boy effect either, except for a small small minority.
What I have seen is that when women are allowed to do what they'll have sex with any guy they find attractive. It has nothing to do with being an "Alpha."
I have been hit on by a lot of women, and I am not an "Alpha." And in high school I looked like Garth Algar.
I work in an industry that employs a large number of "bad boys". I work with them on a daily basis. In my experience there are three problems with the bad boy theory. First, the actual bad boys aren't particularly outwardly identifiable. They don't look and dress like the movies. Second, they don't talk much about the things they've done or are going to do. If they wanted you injured or dead, they would simply do it. There would be little to no discussion or planning. Finally, I've seen little evidence that they get the girls. They just don't.
I think what's being confused here is "bad boys" as they actually exist, and men who have enough excess income to acquire some of the traditional trappings of bad boys such as motorcycles and leather, without acquiring the prison sentence.
Also, the contemporary urban world, where women love to flock, has a distinct lack of traditional manliness. Given that there is a superficial overlap between the trappings of manliness and bad boys, women will sometimes confuse the two in an environment that is light on traditional men.
The "Bad Boys" I knew didn't threaten people, didn't brag, didn't engage in pissing contests. They just hurt people and sometimes killed them.
Guys who think they are "Manosphere Alphas" wouldn't stand a chance against them.
I agree completely, Bob. When I think of the bad boys I've worked with and the self-proclaimed alphas, I chuckle and think of two bad boys in particular. One was a short, average looking dude who, unknown to most, was crazy when he had alcohol in him, a former college wrestler and an expert with a knife. If you said the wrong thing to him at the wrong time, you could wind up seriously injured before you even knew he was attacking you.
The other bad boy was a slightly overweight middle age man who in a previous life had been employed by an African nation to murder blacks. He would never confront some "Alpha" in a bar fight. He'd back down and a couple of days later your "Alpha" might never be seen again.
People just don't get how different the world of the actual bad boys is from their own.
I think the problem here is the definition of bad boy versus murderous thug. They are not the same and it appears that you're talking about thugs whereas most people in the manosphere are talking about the other. The typical "bad boy" that I see getting some cute young chick is mostly a poser that shows just enough disrespect for authority and social norms that a women is excited by the "danger" but not terrified for her life. He's the wantabe band member that fills her head with thoughts of living the rockstar life sometime soon. I see these chicks all the time, ten years later, a single mother cutting hair complaining about all the crap he did and now looking for that beta provider to take care of her and her spawn (which she usually finds as she's still somewhat good looking and there are a lot of thirsty guys that will take whatever is offered).
Also, you've got to see this through the eyes of your typical beta who is a stuffed shirt compared to most and will label a starving artist or even some regular blue collar guy as a "bad boy" when what he is actually talking about is someone that is more exciting than him but of limited earning potential and that treats women "badly" or in the case of American women how they should be treated, instead of putting them on a pedestal.
"The typical "bad boy" that I see getting some cute young chick is mostly a poser that shows just enough disrespect for authority and social norms that a women is excited by the "danger" but not terrified for her life"
That's why I called them wannabes. And if they ran into some real Bad Boys they wouldn't know what to do.
Raised with those guys, I get along just fine with them. Treat them with the same respect you would anyone else. Be cocky and arrogant and a smartass who thinks women like "insanely confident men," the way that fraud Rossy thinks, and you're going to get your ass handed to you.
I know the life and where these guys hang out. That's why I stay away from those areas.
Bob, you are hung up on the term "bad boy". It doesn't refer to the low impulse control violent losers you've mentioned but the dominant seeming non conformists who create sexual excitement
There is some crossover in the most damaged girls but most women do want a dominant guy not a crazy guy.
Hypergamy is related to this but really its about instinct to shop up and keep excited. A good chunk of the brain seems to think exciting is the best mate material
This changes in the 30's as the women leaves the prime reproductive age and providers with a degree of excitement become more attractive do to chemical changes in the body.
Of course most men want peak reproductive age women and so the dance goes on.
It's the Manosphere that's hung up on the term, "Bad Boy," not me. And it doesn't even know what they, as the posters above shown. They're poseurs who don't understand men or women, hence their belief in something else that doesn't exist - Alpha Fux and Beta Bux.
"Those aren't Bad Boys. They're wannabes. When they run into real Bad Boys they collapse. Mouth on top, nothing underneath... The 'Bad Boys' I knew didn't threaten people, didn't brag, didn't engage in pissing contests. They just hurt people and sometimes killed them."
My father, an ex-bouncer, taught me the same thing when I was growing up. The guys who used to cause most of the trouble in his dive always had some kind of deep-seated insecurity for which they were obviously compensating- short guys with Napoleon complexes were the most common, though there were other types. These loud, chest-thumping, miles gloriosus jerks would come in, pick fights, and get their asses mercilessly kicked.
In contrast, whenever my dad would describe one of the really scary guys who used to hang around, he'd always use the same description- "Quiet guy. Always minded his own business".
Experience trumps bad theory every time.
Post a Comment